Tom Andriola 0:08
Hello and welcome to Gradually, Gradually, then Suddenly – an interview series with leaders in higher education, healthcare and technology to discuss current issues and how technology and data are shaping our world. My name is Tom Andriola, and I’m the Vice Chancellor for information, technology and data at University of California, Irvine.
My guest today is Dr. Doug Haynes, the Vice Chancellor for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at the University of California at Irvine. As the campus’ chief diversity officer, Dr. Haynes leads UC’s efforts to be a national model of inclusive excellence for students, faculty and staff. Dr. Haynes oversaw the creation of the office in 2016, and works with university leaders to improve the capacity for diversity and gender equity. We’re excited to have him as our guest today, and to speak on how his role at UCI is developed and how campuses need to be a place for not just inclusion, but in today’s world and events, anti-racism. Dr. Haynes, welcome.
Doug Haynes 1:04
Thank you, Tom. And please, call me Doug. I really appreciate it. And I want to thank your listeners too, for hanging in there.
Tom Andriola 1:11
Oh, all right. Well, thank you. Okay. Well hey, to get things started today, can you talk us a little bit – I know your role is somewhat unique, especially being a vice chancellor – can you talk a little bit about your role the main things does and how it’s evolved?
Doug Haynes 1:25
Yeah, and I think it’s really quite intriguing in the sense that the position is relatively new. I am the inaugural Vice Chancellor for equity, diversity inclusion, and I started last June. And it really grew out of a priority of Chancellor Gilman to really ensure that the campus is truly accelerating an inclusive excellence enterprise. And so that extends to not only our students – graduate students, undergraduates, faculty and staff and alum and the communities that we interface with. And so the office really is about creating a culture where everyone expects equity, supports diversity, practices inclusion and honors free speech. And I think those principles of inclusive excellence, I think most people resonate with. What we try to do on campus is to build people’s capacity to purposefully practice them.
Tom Andriola 2:29
Excellent. I know that, you know, as you elevate the role, has a role turned out the way you thought it was going to be, or have there been some curveballs along the way?
Doug Haynes 2:37
I have to admit, Tom, I think the word curveball is perfect, because it was new, as the inaugural Vice Chancellor, but it was familiar in the sense that I know many people here at UCI, they’re wonderful colleagues and students. And the real challenge was: how do we sort of create a learning organization for so many different people who come to UCI essentially for the same reason to advance our research, teaching and service mission? And so over time, I’ve had to listen a lot, learn even more, and then start developing an action plan that we all can sort of participate in to push the campus forward. There have been curveballs. But I have to say, I tend to learn a lot more when I have to face a curveball.
Tom Andriola 3:36
Yeah, that is the case, isn’t it? You know, we’ve all been gripped on by current events. And it’s amazing as you talk to people, reactions are so different depending on your your circumstances and where you come from, you know, in this whole diversity, equity, inclusion space, you know, being a technology professional. Technology industry has been one of the worst when it has come to equity issues, inclusion over time. And you know, I’ve done a lot of my time with the university to try to bring this to light, especially as a as a white male in a position of power, I try to lean in on the topic. But can you talk a little bit about from your perspective, what you feel we’re dealing with, you know, in today’s current environment, what we’re confronted with as a society?
Doug Haynes 4:24
You know, I really appreciate that that question, Tom, because I think what we’re confronting as a society is changing continuity. The continuity is, in some sense, the persistence of anti-Black racism, in this case, in reference to the criminal justice system. But I think when we look also at the scale and scope and intensity of the protests in support of Black lives, and against policing practices, it is really a recognition that the policing incidents that we see really represent the tip of an iceberg of injustice, that sort of manifests itself in educational opportunity, access to wealth production, the economy, to even healthcare and healthcare outcomes, among others. And so there’s a tremendous, a lot, to this set of protests that I described as a reckoning in the country around anti-Black racism. And we have many precedents for this type of expression: rides that occurred 1965 in Watts, in 1968 after the assassination of Martin Luther King, 1992 after the exoneration of the police officers who beat Rodney King, 2014 in Ferguson. And so we’ve seen this before, but the change the changes the scale and scope and intensity of the protests, and the diversity of the protests. And so I like to think we’re close to an inflection point about how we as a society and campus really work to create a culture where people thrive. And now that’s going to take some work, Tom. You know, I think that there’s a tremendous number of people who are personally committed to diversity and equity and inclusion. But I think in order to dismantle the anti-Black sentiment, will take, really a willingness to learn and to be purposeful in how we choose to be a member of this UCI community or for that matter, any organization
Tom Andriola 7:02
Yeah. You and I were talking about this earlier, Doug. You know, we like to think of ourselves in higher education, especially public higher education with our mission that, you know, we embody and, you know, we make great efforts to make create a more diverse society to be very inclusive, looking at current events outside and then looking at our campus. I mean, do you feel that the our campus is doing a better job on this issue, the same as broader society, or worse than broader society? What’s your perspective in this?
Doug Haynes 7:30
I think that in some ways we are in other ways we’re not. So I think, for example, in the ways that we are is the relentless and intensive focus of broadening participation into UCI’s wonderful academic programs. There’s so many indicators that sort of indicate that commitment and achievement. You know, the number of first-generation, low income students that we educate the fact that we’re a Hispanic Serving institution. The fact that we are committed to growing the participation of African Americans in our undergraduate and graduate programs, that we’re increasing the hiring of African Americans in the professorial, right, that our leadership is changing is looking a lot like the state and the country. There’s still room for improvement, but I think we need to acknowledge where progress has been made. I think where it hasn’t been made, is mobilizing the organization to really get at some nagging issues, such as a sense of belonging. And so on the one hand were wildly diverse, I mean by any dimension of diversity, sexual orientation, gender expression, race, ethnicity, immigration status, disability, you name it. But the real challenge for large organizations, and this is true for larger organizations in the not for profit and for profit, is creating a sense of community where people feel they can trust each other and that they’re able to be their best selves. And I think that is the fundamental challenge that we face – precisely because we’ve been so successful for the most part in achieving compositional diversity. And that requires becoming a learning organization. You know, understanding who our population is, how do we know if they if they are experienced a sense of belonging? Are they sort of achieving their professional and career goals and that requires a real commitment to listening and matching needs to resources.
Tom Andriola 10:00
Doug, you wrote a message, you actually wrote several messages out to our campus community. There was a passage you wrote that I wanted to ask you about when we had you today, you’re referring to accountability. And you said, quote, recognizing the invisible and uncredited emotional labor that Black men and women expand to learn, teach, discover and work. Can you expand on that for our listeners, and what that really means so that we can gain a better understanding of that.
Doug Haynes 10:32
Thank you, Tom. And that passage is I think, particularly significant because what it refers to is the gap between being part of an organization and being OF the organization and in order to reconcile that difference requires an individual in this case, a Black person to constantly code switch to constantly make up the lack of attention that is specific to them. For example, being accessible to people who feel that they don’t know their way around the organization. And you go out of your way as a Black person to help them because you want them to be successful. And so that’s the type of labor that takes place that often is unknown, uncredited, but has become almost a tax for African Americans to both join and thrive within predominantly white, or organizations that have very few Black people. And I wanted to put that in writing because I think it’s part of the sort of tacit knowledge that’s out there, but very few people are aware of.
Tom Andriola 12:20
Right. Now, I know our chancellor has really tasked you to lead the response in the programmatic action plan around anti-Blackness. You’ve already rolled out with your office pillars for inclusive excellence. How is what you’re going to do with anti-Blackness? How is it different or how does it align? You know, I mean, what do you expect? I know you’re still building those plans and bringing, you know, resources across the university together, but how do you expect it to dovetail or differ from your pillars that you’ve already exposed?
Doug Haynes 12:55
Well, I think that’s it’s an extremely important question because underlying what we’re doing is organizational change. And the inclusive excellence action plan consists of three large pillars: community, thriving, and wellness. And after consulting widely with different campus constituencies and stakeholders and partners, we arrive at those three pillars as part of our culture, as an organization, where we need to create community for people to feel they belong. And that is crucial for people to experience a sense of thriving in their career and their learning. And they must also experience wellness. When you look at those three pillars as the sort of foundation, the plans that we have for the African American initiative, you know, really aligns with it. Because, you know, we want to sort of address a sense of belonging for all populations, including African American populations, we definitely want people to thrive. And that also applies to African Americans. And we feel that wellness is something that all members of the campus community should enjoy. And for that reason, we also link plan activities around promoting a greater sense of wellness, that can take many forms and expressions. But ultimately, what we wanted to do was to focus campus attention on the African American population and in so doing, I think we are accelerating our inclusive access action plan, while at the same time addressing a community that in many ways doesn’t feel they belong.
Tom Andriola 14:57
Powerful. Thank you. All right, Doug, last question. You and I talked about this a little bit, right? You know I’m known for, you know, what I call my 1% model. And you’re gonna get the 1% question today. So, let me let me set it up a little bit. Right, you know, this topic, when we’re talking diversity, equity inclusion, you know, it calls me to task as a leader that, you know, I’m not silent, but vocal on this issue. And so I also know, and truly believe that you know, that that real movement, real change in the way people think and behave is not a top down journey, right? It really is a bottoms up journey. And people have heard me say, I’ll take 10,000 people all trying to do 1% better tomorrow over any charismatic, visionary leader on stage trying to to lead the group in a certain direction, right? Give me the 1% change in mass numbers, to really make change happen. And so you If you think about then this, right I mean, I asked myself this every day, I’ll ask members of our community every day to say, How are you trying to be 1% better on this topic? So if you can leave our listeners with your maybe top two, three things that we can do personally to get better on the anti-Blackness topic?
Doug Haynes 16:20
Well, Tom, I just want to thank I think the 1% models is a powerful tool, because ultimately creating a culture where African Americans thrive at UCI, or for that matter any organization, is organized around choice. That we have to choose as a community to confront anti-Black racism as a precondition to creating a thriving culture. And so there are four things I just want to sort of suggest. I want to offer I want to invite folks to.
The first thing is acknowledging how anti-Black racism manifests itself in society. And that involves learning more about it. The second is committing to learn about and advance skills that are about curtailing implicit biases and anti-Black racism in all forms. That it’s a skill. Just as you’re learning, you’re educating yourself, you’re also learning a skill about recognizing implicit biases and how to interrupt them. And this has applications in multiple populations. We also think, looking at data and evidence rather than having this be an intuitive or reactive response, that we are learning, educating ourselves, equipping ourselves with new competencies, but we’re also looking at data and evidence to better understand how our organization is doing. And finally, engaging with members of the Black community is so important to acknowledge, but also to be in a better position to make visible their contributions to the organization. And, Tom, I just want to end on this final point, when you think of the Black community, I want you to think of the diversity within it. There are Black gay men and women, transgender, queer, first-generation, low income, veterans, disabled. And so in addressing anti-Black racism to create a culture where the African Americans thrive, you’re really addressing the range and dimensions of diversity that really characterize all great organizations.
Tom Andriola 19:00
It really comes down to valuing the individual because at the end of the day, we are all individuals.
Doug Haynes 19:05
Exactly. Exactly.
Tom Andriola 19:08
Dr. Haynes, I really want to thank you for being here today. You are our inaugural podcast member. And there couldn’t be a more important topic to spend a few minutes to talk about today than this one. It’s gripping our society, it is something that we systematically have to root out of not only our behaviors, but the way that we think within our society. So I really want to thank you for being here today, for sharing your perspective and your plans for us. And I really look forward to being your partner as we as we move UCI forward and hopefully broader society. Thank you.
Doug Haynes 19:45
Thank you, Tom. I really appreciate it and I thank your audience for hanging in and listening to us.
Tom Andriola 19:52
To all you out there, be safe and we’ll be back with you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
